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Swedenborg Centre
Dialogue
October 17th, 1998 dialogue by Gary Hipworth with Alan
Mann and Friends
1. Have any new skills or unusual
abilities come with this change?
(Gary experienced a change of consciousness in 1996 through insight, experimentation
and studying and observing his mental processes)
GH: I’m having a lot of insights that seem to be so obvious now and I think that comes with seeing wholes and somehow freeing up and allowing the right brain to start to operate. (At this point Gary referred to his book as a result of the change pointing out that writing was not something he would have contemplated in his former role as ‘accountant’.)
As an illustration of right brain effects beginning to appear Gary quoted the boiling frog tale in which a frog in a pan of water which is subjected to a slowly increasing temperature remains where it is until it is too late to move.
And so my brain said that’s what humans are doing. We are oblivious to gradual change because cause and effect are far apart in time and our left brain is not used to dealing with realities where the consequences of our actions are not immediate. So I now have a nickname for left brained humans, I call them ‘Bogs’ derived from boiled frogs. Then I took barking dog and turned it into ‘Darking Bog’ and that is insane but now, when I’m having a reaction , I’m having a darking bog.
I see the need to make it humorous and absurd because it is. If we can create these caricatures then we see ourselves magnified in the light of humour.
2. Is it a being in the present?
GH: There is no present. There is no past and there is no future. That’s how I understand reality. Present is probably the biggest figment our conceptual minds have invented. You can quickly establish this by trying to work out what time it is. The moment you say what time it is it is not that. We have invented a concept called time and tried to fragment reality and live by that fragmentation. Science describes it as a space-time continuum so there is no such thing as time as a separate dimension.
3. Is there a short-cut?
To me the short-cut is if you have worked out intellectually that the ego is a constructed belief system and you find yourself going up and down on the one spot, it is making no difference. Start living it, the awareness reality every day of your life. You’ve got the message. You are aware of the fact. And the awareness of that fact is part of living now. Don’t try and do anything about the conditioning other than be aware of it. To me seeing the fact and living it is the short-cut. Work out triggers for yourself. We’ve mentioned two: the finger click and going open-eyed.
4. Is there any such thing as psychological or spiritual evolution. Are you suggesting it is the idea of psychological evolution that allows us to avoid the fact there is only one time to get it right and that is now?
GH: Not quite. When I had the insight that there is no such thing as psychological or spiritual evolution as in the way various religions suggest, I saw there was nowhere to go but here and that stopped me wanting anything. I saw that my thoughts about growing as a psychological entity which could grow because it got better and bigger, were false. It was simply a bundle of ideas that was growing. All of a sudden I saw how stupid and pointless this way of living was.
Q: I take your point but there seem to have been stages in what happened to you. The initial chaos, then the dying, then the being reborn.
GH: The critical issue was the insight because that shocked my brain. It was like an arrow that went through my brain showing me that I was the problem. And if I wanted to do anything about the world I had to start with me and understand what this ‘me’ is. Without that trigger nothing would have happened. It smashed the reality I had been living. When I discovered the truth, I then tried to find loopholes to escape it, for some years without success, before I realised the game was up. It wasn’t the ‘truth’ I’d wanted. What came after was effortless because I’d realised there was nothing I could do.
5: Is it a permanent state or one that can be called on at any time?
GH: You can’t call upon it. Life is here. It’s nowhere else. What calls upon things is the old entity. It’s a permanent state that has degrees of intensity. It is maximised when the brain is in a fairly secure state. When it realises nothing is going to come along and harm it and when it is not under the gaze and influence of other self-conscious humans who are waiting just to knock it around and prove it is wrong. At night time when problems are under control and when the body is well exercised.
6. Looking back to your other consciousness existence. What was the major obstacle to making the shift?
GH: The idea that knowledge was the way out. I wanted knowledge about reality and I kept reading books about the different areas of knowledge. Seeking truth through knowledge was my biggest obstacle.
7. What were the trigger skills that helped or impeded the process?
GH: Well I think we’ve covered that. What helped was that I am a bull. I will not rest until I’ve gone to the end of the road if there is something I’m passionate about.
8. Was the transformation spontaneous or sought after?
GH: It was spontaneous because I only saw truth. I wasn’t looking for transformation, whatever that is. I don’t know what transformation is. We have a concept called ‘transformation’ so everyone is searching for transformation now. We don’t stop do we?
9. Is there any thing a 'lefty' can do to access right brain mode?
GH: Be aware. Now. Not tomorrow. Aware in terms of now, in the whole picture that is unfolding from moment to moment.
10. Is it possible that enlightenment seems illusory because we seek it partially through thought, awareness, listening, seeing?
GH: Because we seek it. Not because we seek it partially or any other way. Enlightenment is a concept. What is, is what is. So - don’t seek anything, particularly something called enlightenment.
11. How do the thoughts flow now? Is there any self-talk still?
GH: There is certainly self talk. The thoughts flow, most of them are pretty practical or petty. They are based on my ‘unfinished business’ list.
12. When one is talking, for example planning a trip or driving a car does the consciousness automatically shift back into a relative mode.
GH: It just is. The background never goes. Its degree of ‘strength’ changes but it is a constant. Thought comes and goes. Thought is chaotic in the sense that it is all over the place.
